upgrading your television is too hard

So I'm in the market for a new television.  This should be a good thing -- I love television, I love watching television, and I'm looking forward to a bright, shiny future in widescreen HD.  But instead, it's become a decision-making nightmare.

Our current setup is pretty simple:  plain vanilla cable (no digital, only up through channel 72 or whatever), piped into a Series 2 TiVo, and then to a big Sony CRT trinitron.  But what I've discovered is that if I want to upgrade, I basically need to upgrade the whole kit and kaboodle.

• I need to go from basic cable to digital cable.  So OK, it's more expensive, I get that, but there's also some sort of box involved.  With a new remote.  And I'm pretty damn sure that that won't work with our TiVo.
• So then I need some sort of TiVo device -- preferably a real TiVo device.  But an HD TiVo is insanely expensive, and I keep hearing something about cable cards, which some people hate and some people love.  Also, I hear now that you can DVR functionality directly in your cable box, but that the UI sucks. And frankly, the whole point of TiVo is the UI.   
• Then there's the screen itself.  Plasma or LCD? I've discovered that you can't just Google said question, because the rate of change is so high that any article comparing the two technologies is pretty much out of date by the time it gets transmitted down the Intertubes. And a visit to your local electronics retailer doesn't really help, since they're all mostly LCD now, and they're all lined up side by side by side, which I suppose in some platonic world should aid in the decision making process, but actually just confuses the hell out of you.
• Oh, and 720p or 1080p?  I keep hearing more p is better, right?  

So basically right here my decision-making ability goes straight to hell.  Because not only are there decisions to make on all of these axes, there's also the process of executing on said decisions, and timing them right so that I'm not out of luck without any television for two or three weeks.  (What happens if Comcast delivers a digital cable box before I have the flat screen?  Or vice versa?  I'm at risk of missing an entire summer of America's Got Talent!)  And right here is where I marvel -- frankly, upgrading to a new computer is a much simpler proposition than upgrading your television.  (Just buy the fastest chip, most RAM, and most storage you can afford.  What else do you need to know?)

You'd think that the folks who have the most to gain from this transition -- the cable companies -- would want to make this decision process easy. But they're too focused on trying to sell combination voice + internet + television services to make it easy for me to upgrade the service I have to something better...and to guide me through the process.

All I want is to be ready for Season 5 of Lost.  Because if next season Claire's gonna be all Jacob's-cabin-happy in a "I just got high and found the stash of chocolate chip cookies" kind of way, then I need to experience it in all of its HD glory. Seriously, any help / advice on how to make this transition is welcome. (And yes, I know this is a ridiculous problem to have, in the grand scheme of all problems to be had.)  

Comments

[Stef]

Hey Michael, let me share what I plan to do in regards to TV upgrade. First, the TV. A Sharp Aquos 42" is the minimum. Fantastic colors and black restitution. It will be great to display Blu-Rays from the PS3. .
Then Comcast HD. One friend of mine switched to HD by only going to his closest Comcast distributor. They gave him an HD box, there was some paperwork, but everything went very smoothly. And he was able to watch HD channels a couple of hours after he completed the process.
Concerning TiVo, I have no idea, we don't watch TV enough to have bought a TiVo.

My very few cents.

[Mukund Mohan]

I am not at all a TV watcher and dont have one at home - but when has that ever stopped me from having an opinion? :)

1. Ditch cable go to Dish or DirecTV - more expensive, but better line up. SIgn up for the basic package its less expensive than cable given the many promotions ongoing.

2. They both come with a "Tivo-like" device. Yes I know its not Tivo, but their UI is decent enough (from my experience 2+ years ago)

3. Screen - given that you like watching TV a lot go for Plasma

4. No clue on the p thing. What is it BTW?

[btrott]

We have a TiVo HD. Not the TiVo Series 3--the TiVo HD. This one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RZDBM2

It's about $300 cheaper than the Series 3, but (shocker!) it doesn't say what time it is on the front of the box, and it doesn't come with a remote that glows in the dark. I think those are the only differences.

(Along with that we have Comcast HD with a cable card. When you use a cable card you don't need a separate box--just the cable input, the card, and the TiVo HD. The setup worked out really smoothly for us, at least.)

[Jim Whimpey]

It's the paradox of choice. More choice is supposed to be better, make us happier, is the corner-stone of a free society, etc. Yet really it makes us unhappy. It doesn't even end when you've made the decision. If you're not 100% happy with the setup you end up with, you scold yourself — *surely*, with so much choice, something perfect is out there, yet you spent all that money on the piece of junk 52" 1080i LCD 100hz.

Sorry I can't help, I tried the same thing a few months ago and ended up completely abandoning the whole venture.

[miyagawa]

I also did some research how to get HD content since I wanted to watch the EURO 2008 over ESPN2 HD pretty recently. So here it goes:

To get Comcast HD, you can select from 1) set top box 2) Comcast HD DVR ($10/month rental) or 3) TiVo HD ($220 on Amazon). With #3 TiVo HD you can just order CableCard from Comcast and don't need those separate DVR or STBs.

Pros/Cons for Plasma, LCD and DLP TVs:

- Plasma: great picture, flat panel, big size available, full HD (1080p) very expensive or unavailable, not good for PC/gaming input
- LCD: relatively smaller size, decent price, not good for fast moving pictures like sports (but recent models should be OK), good for PC/gaming input
- DLP: great picture quality, cheap price, good for all sources,fat panel (not flat), narrow viewing angle, not bright enough in daylights.

For the brand/makers, I recommend Pioneer Plasma or Samsung LCD.

My current setup is pretty simple as 56" Samsung LED DLP 1080p connected to Mac mini using DVI-HDMI, and the TV is not even attached with any antenna since I get all that content over the wonderful internets and hack Mac apps like Front Row to "emulate" the TiVo UI goodness (and its interface is definitely not friendly to people who have a family :D).

[Jesse Gardner]

Hey Michael!

Good job on stage the other day.

I just bought a Vizio 42" LCD 1080p for $799. I, too, went to digital cable, but it's really not that big a deal (unless you're into sports where I suppose it's better). A lot of your video game systems and players don't support full 1080p (think resolution), and even those that do support it technically don't have a whole lot of titles that support it fully. That being said, I'm positive it will be more important in time, so get it now.

If you're dead set on Tivo, you can go the monthly subscription route and pay $12.95 a month, if you dig that. I personally grab all of my shows online and watch them using FrontRow. YMMV.

On the Plasma vs. LCD note, I know that the plasma puts out quite a bit more heat and is more succeptable to screen burn; however LCD isn't quite as vivid and bright. You can decide which matters most in that equation.

Hope that helps!

[don loeb]

hilarious...i haven't upgraded even though i wanted to 4 years ago. the good news = the longer you wait the better/cheaper the sets become.

i have an additional requirement - i want to rent movies AND watch hulu / youtube on the tv. i don't have cable and don't want it...

[Mike Monteiro]

Ben's suggestions are solid. I just did the exact same setup. TivoHD + Comcast cable card. For TVs, just go to Costco. I got a 42" Philips LCD for $999. 1080p. Rock solid. I got to see every tear on Kobe's face last night in magnificent detail.

[EddieM]

Hi Michael,

If you can get a great deal on a 720p/1080i and your screen size does not exceed 42-46", and you are sitting 6+ feet away form the set, GO FOR IT. (its a few hundred difference, you might as well opt for 1080p). 1080p is actually only noticeable on large screens or if you sit real close. Most cable and HDTV is broadcast in 1080i or 720p, therefore the 1080p is only for blu-rays right now.

That said, I have a 46" 1080p LCD samsung that I absolutely love. I am an enthusiast. I sit close (4 feet) and enjoy blu-rays from netflix. I also play alot of 360 and ps3. My room has a big window so I actually searched for the samsung without the shiny screen. (i think they stopped making them) I have zero glare. You might want to consider that if you have a large window in the room, those shiny displays give off tons of glare.

For best quality: I recommend Samsung for LCD, Pioneer for plasma. Sony is also good but expensive for the better TVs.

Here is an ultra cheap solution that I am currently using for programming.

- An HDTV regular antenna ($70)
- Regular cable (you could keep you tivo)

I only pay for regular cable but I get HD over the air channels with my antenna.

If you are even considering not going to HD tivo I would then shift my recommendation to plasmas, they seem to do a much better job displaying non-hd content. Ask a Best Buy guy to put non-hd content and see which TVs do it better in the store.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck! BTW I bought my TV with amazon (free shipping, no taxes, cheaper price than any local store, i would do it again)

[Rob Winchester]

I've got a 52" Sony LCD, HD Tivo (cheap one) with two cable cards, and Comcast. I could NOT be happier with it all, if we ignore the fact that Comcast now owns my life. I tried Comcast's custom TiVo-UI-ish tuner... avoid at all costs. Super buggy.

[David]

When we went HD we shopped the same way one would for stereo speakers: with direct comparisons. Bring a DVD you know well to a store, and have the salesperson play it through each of the sets you're considering. Stand your usual depth form the screen. Go with what you like.

Re the cable box, no harm done if it comes early. Digital signals can be fed into your old TV via the same coaxial cable you use now (double-check with your provider that the box supports it, which is almost definite). You won't get the benefit of the hi-def channels, but you'll be fine for your TiVo-ing and basic channel surfing.

I use the built-in DVR on my cable box and not a TiVo, so the suggestions above will trump mine, but I have friends who navigated the digital box waters successfully. Good luck.

[Matt Jacobs]

Others have sit on similar points, but I'll tell you how I made my decisions. Don't worry about plasma vs. LCD, the differences are so small it doesn't matter anymore. Don't worry about 720p vs. 1080p for the reasons eddiem mentioned. The best way to find a great TV is to go to your local box store and pick out the one with the best picture in your price range. It also helps if you know what size you need (42" is typically enough for most spaces).

As for a DVR, I had bad experiences with CableCards and ended up with DirecTV using their HD DVR box. I miss the boo-boop, boo-BOOP of my Tivo, but otherwise I'm completely satisfied.

[Matt Haughey]

I agree it sucks and it's confusing, but let me break down the rules of thumb on most of these things.

- going to digital cable will require a new TiVo if you want to get HD as well (and you do)

- avoid the Cable Company DVR and get a TiVo HD for $250 or so online

- Sign up for the cheapest digital cable + HD package at your cable company and tell them you need two cable cards for the install.

- Plasma vs. LCD basically depends on the kind of room you put the TV into and the time of day you typically watch. If you aren't near a bank of windows and you don't watch a lot of TV in the day, then a plasma will give you better blacks and look great at night. An LCD is perfect for big bright sunny rooms and looks great in the daytime as well. There are screen burn-in issues with plasma but it's mostly minor

- On TV size, measure the distance between your sofa and where the TV will sit. About 1/2 that distance is the perfect screen size. (My sofa is 8-9 feet away from my TV mount, and I got a 47" screen that looks great).

[Jon Narong]

My plans include a 46" Panasonic HD display, a Blu-Ray player, and an Apple TV.

I can no longer justify the price of Comcast since I barely watch it-- so it's being trashed. I think for the amount of TV I watch it will actually save money to simply buy shows than pay Comcast's fees. For movies, either rent on iTunes or Netflix. Oh and the other good thing about buying shows is it basically works like a Tivo-- you own them so you can watch them however many times you want (and of course no commercials to even skip over).

[John Roberts]

Thanks for posting this. I'm in the same confusing place.

The aspect ratio of HD, and the increased size of all the screen over our 34" CRT, poses an extra challenge -- how to fit a new TV in a cabinet that's not wide enough.

Please post details when you make it past this impasse.

[Joe Friend]

No cable box required as long as you don't care about "On Demand" content and your provider supports cable cards. Get a Tivo HD and a M-cable card (multi-stream to support the two tuners of the Tivo HD). Add an external 500gig HD from Tivo if you want to record a lot of HD content.

Pick the TV of your choice, mine is a 42" Plasma (cheaper when I bought, but LCD is great), and you're good to go.

I've also got a Xbox 360 and my son's WII hooked up to it. And, I've got video content on my Windows Home Server that can be accessed via the Xbox or Tivo!

[Davis W. Frank]

Plasma v. LCD v. DLP v. new tech of the moment. There is not a Google-able solution. It's too subjective -- all of our eyes (and brains) are different.

For example, I can't stand color bleed on Plasma, so I bought LCD. But then a friend who has 2 plasma sets doesn't see the color problems I do and has something he hates about my LCD.

You need to see the following 3 things on each TV:
i) standard def: you're still going to be watching a lot of this (for a while at least), and after you watch any HD content you're going to hate all SD content. So something that makes happy SD display for you is still important

ii) DVD: DVDs will look better than SD on an HD set so this needs to be in the mix

iii) HD, duh. But it will all look amazing.

Find the best mix of these 3 (across all the eyes & brains in your house) and you'll be happy.

[Trina, Michael's wife]

Good God. My head hurts from trying to read all of this. Very helpful advice, but I have one question:

Can't we just look at the art?

I am obviously not very helpful to Michael on this decision.

[Michael Sippey]

Holy cow, I can't believe Trina actually commented.

[Rahul]

Michael , Welcome to the dilemma! :)

I agree with some of the posters above - the most critical thing is to realize you are going to see more non-HD than HD content (assuming standard viewing patterns :) ). So the LCD Vs Plasma question can be answered when you compare non-HD channel quality on both. To me, LCD won that test. Also note that high end plasmas do trump LCDs but then they are insanely more expensive so you've gotto compare plasmas at the same price points. Another point to note in the LCD V Plasma debate is that manufacturers are investing big time in their LCD lines.

In terms of brands, my research concluded Samsungs are the best LCDs given everything - cost/quality/looks/issues/performance.
I settled for LNT4671F and don't have any complaints yet (its 5 months old). I saw a lot of Sony and Sharp sets before making that decision. Sony's are more expensive but most probably their LCD screen comes from the same manufacturer.

I don't have a DVR so can't comment on that but my setup includes a PS3 hooked to the TV via HDMI, a standard DirecTV receiver and a device that hooks me up to an international dish for Int'l programming.

[Garth Webb]

I think someone gave you some criteria for deciding between XXXi and XXXp, but I don't think anyone explained the difference.

I is for interlaced which you'll remember from the good old interlaced-gif days. With an interlaced display, the TV draws all the odd rows in the first pass then all the even rows. This reduces the amount of data it has to pump out but at the cost of some image quality.

P is for progressive which means that all the lines are drawn in one pass. This means more data, but the image quality is better.

How much better is probably up to interpretation.

There is a good wikipedia page for this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan

[Jason Sippey]

hey man. recently made the jump into the world of television with my first tv purchase. yes - very late adaptor on this. but i found it to be simple. went to costco bought the cheapest flat screen i could find at a size that seemed right, then i plugged in apple tv. voila. super simple alternative to the complications in your email. but this may not help ya with sports. saludos, jason

[colleen reilly]

hey sipster - long time no talk. i went through this a bit ago and just wanted to bring up one thing i hadn't seen in the comments. if you're greening your life, or trying, plasmas suck a bunch more energy than LCDs (at least, this was true a year ago). like, 30-60% more from things i read. i went with a plasma (42-in panasonic on sale at amazon, free shipping, using with comcast HD, no complaints at all except for the god#%(* UI of the comcast DVR - am definitely going to go back to TiVo at some point) without knowing this and felt like a bit of a dick driving it home from work in the back of my prius.

besos,
c

[jeff reine]

So. Whadja buy?

[Nat]

If you're still in inertial limbo, consider upgrading the Tivo first, and defer the TV until later (Lost won't be back until January). I bought the Tivo HD a few months ago and patriotically blew my gubmint stimulus on the $400 lifetime subscription, which pays for itself after four years. I'd had my series 2 longer than that, so it seemed defensible.

I haven't gotten around to replacing my old Sony CRT, but the new Tivo alone is a huge improvement. I also went to digital cable, which costs about $10 more per month, but won't introduce any new complexity as long as you stash the STB in a closet and use the Tivo. If necessary, insist on a single "multistream" cablecard rather than two singlestream cards or Comcast will use it as an excuse to bill you an extra few bucks a month.

I love that I can Tivo a baseball game and not worry about running out of space, as would have been inevitable with the series 2.

I'm considering a 42" Vizio from Costco for later this summer. Costco's TVs are returnable for any reason within 90 days (not sure of any better means to test SD quality in advance), and they extend the warranty to two years, three if purchased on their Amex. My only lingering technical question is whether 120hz refresh will be either important or noticeable, leaning toward no.